[Skill] Scattershot Remake on Sniper, Replaced with ESCAPE mechasm, This makes him more VIABLE!!! Options

[Kasad]

Hmm,I've just thought:How is the whole animation changed?Can you describe more accuratly how the bombs explode?

[khojsiab]

Hmm,I've just thought:How is the whole animation changed?Can you describe more accuratly how the bombs explode?

Think of it like Shadow stike or Storm Bolt. The projectile will stun on contact. Also on contact, comes the initial damage which is dealt as physical damage to ONLY the target. Then, after 2 seconds...kaboom, the target will explode because of the Dwarven Bullet which is latched on him/her. The explosion deals magical damage into whatever AOE, which is depending on the level of Dwarven Bullet. The AOE is around the target of course. Did this clear things up?

Also if anyone thinks 1 second is too short tell me and I will bump it to 1.5-2 seconds. This will also be based on majority of opinions, of course.

NOTE: This is not an aimed spell. Like I said its a target spell like Storm Bolt. I am considering on making it into an aimed spell based on ppl's thoughts too tho.

[DotaGuy1986]

I'll give you a conceptual T-Up (which is how I voted), but I'm giving you a numerical T-D. 400 damage for 120 mana? Combined with assassinate?

Think about that.

[khojsiab]

I'll give you a conceptual T-Up (which is how I voted), but I'm giving you a numerical T-D. 400 damage for 120 mana? Combined with assassinate?

Think about that.

Yea, but remember that the 100 damage is physical so its weak later, but I guess it would own early game so I'll up the mana cost since it also stuns and stuff.

[khojsiab]

I raised the stun from 1 second to 1.5 second since I also made lvl 4 go from 120 mana to 140 mana. Other reason's for improving stun is to give him a descent escape mechasm because 1 second is kinda mediocre to run away.

Anyone with problems on the numbers, tell me.

This post has been edited by khojsiab: Dec 14 2008, 04:46 PM

[cezar_sl]

I think it would have greater chances of getting implemented if it was more powerful / spammable, but required skill.
Look at recent heroes, like Admiral, Clock, Mirana, Windrunner.

P.S.
I think it would be more logical if the stun on the initial target would happen when the bullet explodes.

This post has been edited by cezar_sl: Dec 15 2008, 01:46 AM

[khojsiab]

I think it would have greater chances of getting implemented if it was more powerful / spammable, but required skill.
Look at recent heroes, like Admiral, Clock, Mirana, Windrunner.

P.S.
I think it would be more logical if the stun on the initial target would happen when the bullet explodes.

I see now, I will lower cooldown from 15 to 12 and scale the mana cost so that at lvl 4, manacost will be 110. So thx for pointing out how Admiral, Clock, Mirana, and Windrunner could spam their spells.

The stun on contact happens because of the impact of the bullet smacking the target. It could work your way too, but I think it would be better if the stun activates A.S.A.P.

But you made me consider something new, instead of a stun on the target at contact, how about when the bullet explodes it does an AOE stun? What you guys think, or is just one target enough. The stun is 1.5 seconds only and the other heroes have 2 seconds to run before explosion.

[khojsiab]

Okay, I made some changes but it works pretty much the same way.

-The initial damage stays physical and still only happens to the target
-After the 2 second delay, an AOE stun that last 1.5 seconds occur after the initial damage to the target.
-I lowered the manacost scaling to 80/90/100/110
-cooldown went from 14 seconds to 12 seconds

Reasons:

Because of the 2 second delay, the opponents have 2 seconds to run away from each other before the explosion damages and stuns. I lowered the manacost and cooldown to make it more spammable. Like what Cezar_sl said Windrunner, Clock, Admiral, and Mirana have about the same cooldown and the manacost of their nukes is either equal or lower. Windrunner's damage the same after reductions and has the same cd and manacost. Admiral is lower manacost and damage close to the Dwarven Bullet. Clock cd is 20 sec but with 75 manacost. Mirana I was too lazy to look for but it's spammable.

Also, I nerfed the initial damage so now it damages: 20/40/60/80 to balance it so the target won't take in too much damage. After reductions, the target in early should recieve about 285 damage only to Int/str and even less to agi because of their usually high armor. I looked in Dota heroes page to check out the armor at lvl 6 and lvl 7.

This post has been edited by khojsiab: Dec 15 2008, 09:58 AM

[khojsiab]

I can't remember if the 2 on t-down was there, but please at least tell me what you think is wrong before throwing the t-down. More importantly, discuss before you t-down so that I may try to persuade you into a t-up, and those t-uppers thx for support.

[mephiii]

T-Up on the overall Concept!

Think about changing it too a Buff like spell.

When you cast it the Sniper gets a Buff. (last slightly longer than cooldown)
The next time he attacks an enemy with an ordered attack the enemy gets a Debuff.
After 2 secs the debuff makes the explosion and deals aoe dammage.
That way this skill profits from Take Aim Range, you can precast it.
I think a little improvement in manacost (+10 or so) and shorter cooldown woudl be nice (9 or 10 secs) so yo ucan fullfill nice lanedomination and ganking. (and not dps what most try too use sniper for. But its bad becouse he dont have that good stat growth in str and agi and no real steroid spell like and trueshot aura or crit)


I think this may work well with my Take Aim Subskill. Sneaky heavy shooting out of the jungle! Check it out in my Signatur

[ComradeDover]

A Dwarven Sniper's Frost Nova. I can't say it's what he needs, exactly. I'm not so sure about this. The old scattershot could be used to push towers, and it seems like this probably can't. Is that intentional?

[khojsiab]

A Dwarven Sniper's Frost Nova. I can't say it's what he needs, exactly. I'm not so sure about this. The old scattershot could be used to push towers, and it seems like this probably can't. Is that intentional?

It's not a Frost Nova, it does a delayed Aoe stun, more like an aimed Torrent from Admiral. BUT I did not get the idea from them, it's simple really. A fast moving bullet does physical damage because of the impact, then an explosion from the bullet which sticks onto the target. This isn't for pushing towers, it's for many MORE IMPORTANT THINGS!!! Escape mechasm, AoE disable, and it's still a harrassing skill. A lot of people said that he doesn't make it competitively because he is slow and doesn't have an escape mechasm. Well, here is an escape mechasm and it isn't a 5 second thought up one too.

Like I said, it's for escaping, and I bet some of you will counter with the Lothar's. But we could be using that money for an Eaglehorn or BkB or whatever you guys get.

And where did the 5th T-down came from. Honestly, you guys either don't read, or are lazy to post. T-downers, PLZ post any reason why you do not like it. I know you guys r not forced but at least give out some constructive comments or hold your vote. Plz, it takes only several seconds to about a minute for a short to paragraph post.

You said push towers, you mean damage towers? No it does not hurt the towers but it could still help you farm a lot. 300 AoE damage and 380 damage to the target if its creeps. Also it delays, so that gives time for your creeps to weaken the enemy creeps.

This post has been edited by khojsiab: Dec 17 2008, 12:38 PM

[ComradeDover]

I missed the stun part on the first read through. I can see it's usefulness now, I guess. I wouldn't go so far as to call it an escape. You won't get that far in 1.5 seconds. It does make for a handy nuke/disable though


As for the T-down, I hadn't voted yet, although I was leaning toward t-down. After the explanation, I'm solidly in null vote terratory.

[Zelda911]

Hmm yeah if it isn't aimed (with the range etc) it would be a ridiculous spell for harrassing and stuff considering that sniper doesn't use mana on much else. I think that scatter shot is a retarded skill and this would be a great buff to sniper (he really needs one). As far as i can see sniper has range and last-hitting. This would make him an even better laner.

[dgmasterz]

T-up from me, nice one..
But I'd really love it to be aimable i.e. like Elune's Arrow..
And the idea of knocking the surrounding units from the exploding one seems nice to me..
Maybe you could make a test map to convice people?..

[Nox-]

How is this an escape mechanism?

[khojsiab]

How is this an escape mechanism?

It's a stun with about 280 damage after reduction. So while the stun kicks in you could choose these two options:

1)RUN
2)He is stunned, so...OWN lol

T-up from me, nice one..
But I'd really love it to be aimable i.e. like Elune's Arrow..
And the idea of knocking the surrounding units from the exploding one seems nice to me..
Maybe you could make a test map to convice people?..

I would do that, but I can't play/get on much. And if you're wondering how much experience I have since I can't play much, I have 3 years experience and I used to be able to play about 8 games a day 2 years ago. So when I could get on, I just play.

Hmm yeah if it isn't aimed (with the range etc) it would be a ridiculous spell for harrassing and stuff considering that sniper doesn't use mana on much else. I think that scatter shot is a retarded skill and this would be a great buff to sniper (he really needs one). As far as i can see sniper has range and last-hitting. This would make him an even better laner.

True, but if you look at Mirana, Clockwork, Admiral, and Windrunner you could see that their nukes do 300+ damage with about 12 second cd. Lina's does 280 with 8 second cd and Krobelus is a LOL with her 3 ability.

Edit: Sniper needs this change because he is basically food, even in pubs due so slow ms, no escape mechasm, and a mediocre harrass skill. With this, he could be used competively, stun multipe enemies and Icefrog and the beta testers could up the cooldown/manacost if they implement this. Also remember, numbers could ALWAYS be change. And WHY is there a random 6 t-down, at least say something like "This skill is imba because of blah blah" or "I love Scattershot" or something like that plz.

Also remember that the stun is delayed to give the opponents time to run away from the guy who has the bullet stuck on him. Also, the guy with the bullet stuck on him could run the opposite direction too. Also, take a look at LUNA, 300 damage nuke with 6 second cd. The mana cost is only 120 and also it does a .6 second stun.

This post has been edited by khojsiab: Dec 18 2008, 06:13 AM

[khojsiab]

Wow the 7th one has arrived. It's also a random one.

[ComradeDover]

It's a stun with about 280 damage after reduction. So while the stun kicks in you could choose these two options:

1)RUN
2)He is stunned, so...OWN lol

A 1.5 second stun doesn't make an escape mechanism.

[cezar_sl]

IMO AoE stun + great damage must be aimed.
It could on the other hand have a subskill to make it explode, like puck has for his orb.