[INT - SENT] Vespertine the Aether, My latest post is a rant... Options

[Elementalism]

Please vote on concept and not numbers. If you are inclined to a T-Down for this idea then please at least comment on why so I can potentially fix whatever is wrong.

Hi all!

This is my first hero idea on the DA forums, although i did post a few ideas formerly on the DP forums. I hope that this has the potential to be potentialed! So without further ado i present...


~Vespertine the Aether~



Model: Water Elemental with Maximum Red colouring, 15 Green, and 15 Blue colourings. It produces a dark, powerful texture on the elemental.

Skills: Can learn Aether Discharge, Negation Link, Twilight Rage, and Mana Radius.

Story

Vespertine was summoned during a particularly nasty assault between the finest sorcerors of the Sentinel and the Scourge. This heightened combination of magic prompted his creation, and it is to these such sorcerors that he offers his services. Choosing the Sentinel due to their heightened need for his skills, he amplifies the powers of their magic, in addition to aiding them in the swift recovery of their mana. His own powers grow as he learns and develops his immense knowledge of the Aether from which magic is born, and it is because of this immense power vested in Vespertine that the Sentinel owe him their very lives.

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Attributes

Affiliation: Sentinel

Strength: 22 (2.3)
Agility: 11 (1.2)
Intelligence: 23 (2.5) (Primary)


Movement Speed: 290
Range: 600
Base HP: 568
Base MP: 325
Base Armor: 1.5
Base Damage: 53-58
Attack Animation: A scaled-down version of crushing wave.

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Skills and Abilities

Skill 1


A[e]ther Discharge

Ability Type: Active/Special
Target: Single Target Enemy
Casting Range: 800
AOE: 200/270/330/400
MP Cost: 160
Cooldown: 30/25/20/15 seconds

Description
Vespertine releases a powerful discharge of Aether that shatters the mind of the target enemy hero, dealing damage and stunning for a short amount of time based on Vespertine's Intelligence. All enemies nearby are pushed outside an AOE around the affected hero and stunned for 1 second. Initial target stun duration is 0.5 seconds plus the damage dealt to the target divided by 180. The target cannot be stunned for longer than 4 seconds with this skill.

Level 1: Deals 20 damage plus Intelligence x 0.5 in damage. 200 AOE push.

Level 2: Deals 40 damage plus Intelligence x 1 in damage. 270 AOE push.

Level 3: Deals 60 damage plus Intelligence x 1.6 in damage. 330 AOE push.

Level 4: Deals 80 damage plus Intelligence x 2.2 in damage. 400 AOE push.

Framework: Starfall animation on target unit, enemies shoved back like a faster Greater Bash, and a Brilliance Aura animation flashes to show the radius of the push.

Notes
- This is an utterly shocking spell early game, but an absolute beast late game. Here is a breakdown of how the damage progresses:

At level 1 (without items and with level 1 Aether Discharge) this spell does a pitiful 31 damage with a 0.6 sec stun.
At level 7 (without items and with level 4 Aether Discharge) this spell does a better 163 damage with 1.4 sec stun.
At level 16 (without items) this spell will do 213 damage, with a 1.6 sec stun, but keep in mind this is without items.
At level 25 (without items and with stats) this spell will do 306 damage, with a 2.2 sec stun, almost the amount a standard nuking Intelligence hero does at level 7!

So why is this spell so good?

Later on, my proposed item build (see below) sees Vespertine with an additional 120 Intelligence. If you factor this in the spell, at level 25, does 570 damage with a 3.6 second stun, at a 15 second cooldown! And thats without factoring the reduction in resistance from Negation Link! This spell is enough to put an enemy hero out of battle for a long time, but only much later in the game.

But you have to farm that amount first. And Vespertine isn't really the model farmer...

- The AOE push serves to disrupt enemies and offers synergy to other skills, as well as working as a good contribution to team battles.

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Skill 2


Nega[t]ion Link

Ability Type: Active
Target: Single Target Enemy
Casting Range: 700
AOE: N/A
MP Cost: 120/130/140/150
Duration: 20 seconds
Cooldown: 30 seconds

Description
Vespertine unleashes a link of negative energy that jumps to nearby enemies and reduces their resistance to magic. The link represents a bond of strength, thus the further away from each other the linked units venture the greater the resistance penalty. The jump range of the link is 800 at all levels, and the maximum distance penalty is 1000 units.

Level 1: Initial 4% reduction in magic resistance per linked unit. 2 targets. For every 100 units from the nearest linked unit, the penalty is increased by 2% p/100 units.

Level 2: Initial 8% reduction in magic resistance per linked unit. 2 targets. For every 100 units from the nearest linked unit, the penalty is increased by 4% p/100 units.

Level 3: Initial 12% reduction in magic resistance per linked unit. 3 targets. For every 100 units from the nearest linked unit, the penalty is increased by 6% p/100 units.

Level 4: Initial 16% reduction in magic resistance per linked unit. 4 targets, with heroes being priority targets. For every 100 units from the nearest linked unit, the penalty is increased by 8% p/100 units.

Framework: The ladder Spirit Link animation for the casting and the duration.

Notes
- Powerful with your own spells, but shines with allied nukes.

- The strongest feature is that it forces enemies to stay together during fights or risk receiving more powerful nukes, especially at level 4 where heroes are the PRIORITY target of the spell.

- With enough distance between them, enemies can often have their resistance reduced by 96%! Thats assuming they're stupid enough to separate.

- The reaction of enemies often unwillingly sets them up for powerful spell combos. See hero synergy.

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Skill 3


Twilight [R]age

Ability Type: Active/Buff
Target: Single Target Self/Ally Hero
Casting Range: 700
AOE: N/A
MP Cost: 160/170/180/190
Duration: 8/10/12/14 seconds
Cooldown: 30 seconds

Description
Vespertine creates a powerful focused rage in himself or an allied hero that allows them to regenerate mana everytime they lose health. Any spells cast by the hero under Twilight Rage will replenish mana to nearby allies. The mana replenished is equal to a percentage of the mana cost of the skill cast in a 600 AOE. The caster does not have mana replenished by this. Autocast skills don't trigger this. Twilight Rage cannot be cast on a hero with Mana Shield activated, and casting Mana Shield dispels Twilight Rage on that hero.

Level 1: Regenerates 0.5 points of mana for every 1 point of health lost. Mana replenished to allies is 10% of spell cost.

Level 2: Regenerates 1 point of mana for every 1 point of health lost. Mana replenished to allies is 20% of spell cost.

Level 3: Regenerates 1.5 points of mana for every 1 point of health lost. Mana replenished to allies is 30% of spell cost.

Level 4: Regenerates 2 points of mana for every 1 point of health lost. Mana replenished to allies is 40% of spell cost.

Framework: Target has the magic sentry "eye" above them. Enemies cannot see this, and have no indication that it has been cast. Aliies who have mana replenished have standard mana replenimshment animation.

Notes
- This skill is a tribute to MP Rage from Kingdom Hearts, which possesses the same concept found here.

- I have worded this a certain way. It's not 'damage taken' but 'health lost'. That is, you only regenerate mana if your health actively goes down. Taking hits while having, for instance, Refraction active will not give you mana as you aren't actively losing health.

- The mana replenishment works like this. Say Vespertine uses level 4 Aether Discharge and has level 4 Twilight Rage cast on him. Upon casting Aether Discharge, at a cost of 160 mana, he immediately replenishes 40% of the mana cost of Aether Discharge, or 64 mana to your allies in a 600 AOE.

- The reason this skill doesn't replenish massive amounts to allies is twofold. First of all, the previous effect of Twilight Rage is already significant, and my aim was to simply add a concept that would compliment that existing effect. Second, this skill WORKS with Mana Radius. With level 3 Mana Radius and level 4 Twilight Rage active, you're replenishing 80 mana to allies PER SECOND to allies. I designed this new effect to work with Vespertine's other skills, primarily his ultimate, and I think I have achieved this.

- Vespertine fits as a prime target for the spell, as he has high cost spells in addition to a high strength gain, allowing him to tank the damage required to regenerate the mana. This works well on most any hero, especially tanks with high cost spells of their own, such as Ogre Magi, Earthshaker, etc.

- Gives Vespertine and his allies more early laning power, allowing them to spam spells and forgo mana items early on for health regeneration.

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Ultimate


Mana Ra[d]ius

Ability Type: Active/Channel
Target: AOE
Casting Range: 200
AOE: 400
MP Cost: 70/130/200
Duration: N/A
Cooldown: 150/115/85

Description
Vespertine channels a large amount of mana into an area, which grows stronger the longer it is allowed to channel. When released, it deals large damage in an AOE, which scales for every second it gets channeled. The damage dealt and mana used is equal to the amount channeled. When Vespertine is given another command, interrupted, or the duration runs out the spell is released.

Level 1: Channels 70 mana/damage per second for 5 seconds. (for a total of 350 damage) Adds 40 AOE for every second channeled. (for a total of 600 AOE)

Level 2: Channels 130 mana/damage per second for 6 seconds. (for a total of 780 damage) Adds 65 AOE for every second channeled. (for a total of 790 AOE)

Level 3: Channels 200 mana/damage per second for 7 seconds. (for a total of 1400 damage) Adds 90 AOE for every second channeled. (for a total of 1030 AOE)

Framework: The effect on the ground as the spell is being channeled is the ground ripples preceding Ladder Flame Strike. Release is shown with the Ladder Charm animation coming from each of the affected heroes with the sound effect used for Phantom Lancer's juxtapose image creation.

Notes
- This skill is EXTREMELY dependant on the aid of allies. A powerful disable landed by an ally would give you enough time to sufficiently channel a high powered Radius.

- Augments Vespertine's other skills. (see synergy)

- Used in large team battles.

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FAQ


Aether Discharge


Q1: This sucks in early game! He is supposed to be an Intelligence hero, make it better early on!

The entire concept of this spell is based around the power it gains as the game progresses. It is a done concept to have all nukes be good early on while quickly losing power towards the late game. My idea was to create an effective and powerful late game nuke, which must sarifice early game power in order to do so. Vespertine's role in the early game isn't to nuke people anyway - it's to support his allied casters.

Q2: This is imbalanced late game! Nearly 600 damage every 15 seconds? 3.5 second stun? Whack with a nerf stick please!

The entire basis of these numbers that I included was that Vespertine would be able to farm up his ideal items every game. This will NOT always be the case. His farming potential is, arguably, the most shocking of ANY hero. He has poor Agility gain, NO incentive to up his attack speed, and no farming spells (Mana Radius, with its high cooldown, doesn't count). You need to be incredibly gifted with last hitting in order to farm up these ideal items. Aether Discharge can be imbalanced, but only when you have put the effort in.

Q3: What's with the pushback to nearby enemies? Why add unnecessary fluff to this?

The pushback is NOT fluff - it is designed to work DIRECTLY with Negation Link. Negation Link penalises the resistance of enemies based on how far away they are from each other. This is the ONLY way Vespertine can force the enemies apart - anything else is dependant on allied skills or enemy decisions.

Q4: 1 second stun to nearby enemies? Why not more?

Simply because it would synergise too strongly with Mana Radius. 1 second is short enough to prevent too much imbalance, while long enough for good allies to set up their combos, as well as generally disrupting the enemies in the heat of battle.


Negation Link

Q1: Woah 96% reduction in resistance? Thats way too imbalanced, nerf please!

That's assuming that the enemy is stupid enough to separate over that distance. Short of your minimal AOE push in Aether Discharge (and sometimes allied skills) it is ultimately up to the enemy as to where they move.

Q2: So they won't separate then. Why bother with this skill at all if they will just stick together?

Because, aside from reducing a little bit of their resistance anyway, it sets them up for ganks. They can stick together, but they risk receiving an onslaught of AOE skills if they do. No matter what, you are setting up the enemy in order to benefit your team. Don't forget, as the enemy gradually retreats, they usually forget about sticking close. This is when your casters unleash their other nukes to greater effect.


Twilight Rage

Q1: I hate this skill! You need to take damage to get mana? Intelligence heroes can't tank!

First off, this skill can be cast on any allied hero, and not just you. Second, Vespertine has high cost spells, in addition to an ultimate that probably would contribute to the fastest mana loss of any hero. Third, Vespertine has the 2nd highest starting strength and 3rd highest strength gain of all intelligence heroes, so he should be able to sufficiently tank what he needs. Fourth, I designed this skill to be high risk. Short of a bottle, clarity potions, Arcane Ring, and a few hero skills, Twilight Rage gives you the precious commodity that is mana in the heat of battle.

Q2: The mana regeneration from spells cast is too strong. Fix please!

That's why the mana regeneration is based on the % of mana used to cast the spell. The rule of thumb is that the more spammable a spell is the cheaper it is. Spells like Arc Lightning, while having a 2 second cooldown, has such a negligible mana cost that the amount regenerated is fairly small. Not to mention that it doesn't regenerate mana to the caster.

Q3: This is boring and unoriginal and just like Essence Aura. Change please.

Essence Aura works differently to this. The mana regenerated from Essence Aura is based on your total mana and has a % triggers when anyone casts a spell. Twilight Rage's regeneration works by taking a % of the spell cost and regenerating it to allies. It also triggers every time. The goal of each skills is the same - to regenerate mana, but the concepts are much different.

Q4: If I want to tank with this skill, I'd have to miss out on Intelligence items in favour of Strength items! That means Mana Radius and Aether Discharge will be weak! Waaaahhh!

Shut up please. The ultimate idea I brought with this hero is that you would have to choose how you would build your hero, or change how you would depending on the situation. Would you like to maximise on Twilight Rage? Then get things like BKB or even Heart. Yes it will make the other skills weaker. But to have so much dependency on what items you get creates the balance in this hero. If Vespertine were to have everything perfect, he would be too imbalanced. You have to decide how you want him to be.

Q5: I hate this because there is too much risk involved in order to pull it off well.

It's supposed to be risky. I designed this hero to be tough to play. If you want mana then you have to damn well earn it my friend!


Mana Radius

Q1: Hang on, scaling AOE? This skill would make it harder to escape coupled with it's massive damage!

Without disables, this will still be fairly easy to escape from. The AOE increase over time really isn't that much, so it's still easy to just run from.

Q2: If they can just walk away from it then how the hell should I use it?

There are a few ways. First off, you can simply have disabling allies help out. Many allies carry skills which would work wonderfully with this hero. Second, you can go items like Lothar's or Blink Dagger to get good positioning on the skill then channel from a hidden position. Third, because this has such a large AOE, you can channel it up hills, through trees, etc. Get allies to chase the enemy to the position where you are channeling then *BAM!* a nice clean death. Finally, just channel it during a heavy battle. Amidst most of the confusion, they may not notice until it is too late.

Q3: This looks too hard to aim... what happens if I miss with it?

Then you missed... Learn to aim, this isn't a simple spell you just use anywhere. Learn how to use careful timing and execution.

Q4: This costs wayyy too much mana!

That's what Twilight Rage is for! Whether you're taking hits or having allies cast spells, Twilight Rage and Mana Radius work well together in a battle situation.


General

Q1: Why is his Agility so crap?

Because he doesn't need it. None of his skills require the use of high Agility, so why should he have it? Besides, armor from Agility reduces damage you take, thereby decreasing the mana you get from Twilight Rage!

Q2: His model is a water elemental? I'm gonna confuse him with Morphling/Enigma!

Then please get glasses or a brain. I have included what colouring would work well on Vespertine's model, not only to differentiate him from his watery counterparts, but the colouring, in addition to the model, works well for him.

Q3: Where are his disables? He needs them bad!

Yes he does - therein lies the balance of this hero. He can buy Guinsoo's, Shiva's, Eul's, etc. in order to help his skills but, other than the stun form Aether Discharges, any prolonged inherent disables would make Vespertine imbalanced.

Q4: Why is he so late game oriented?

Because the general trend is for an early game Intelligence hero. I tried to design an Intelligence hero that would break the mold and have a purpose in the late game, when it usually matters.

Q5: My query wasn't answered anywhere...

Then please leave a comment and i will respond to it with great detail. If it is a plausible comment, I can add it to the FAQ.

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Strategy


Hero Overview

First lets take a look at his pros and cons:

Pros
- Powerful late game nukes.
- Invaluable to allied Intelligence nukers, increasing their early game dominance.
- Strong team player, though Negation Link and Twilight Rage.
- High Strength and Strength gain, which he can abuse.
- High level of dominance if aided by disablers.

As is shown here, he is the epitome of an Intelligence Supporter hero. Most of his skills augment the power and dominance of Intelligence nukers throughout the game. Negation Link makes nukers more of a threat, and chasing a Linked unit away from Linked allies spells death. Twilight Rage gives more mana to spam nukes at the cost of taking hits. A strong disabler works in tandem with Aether Discharge and Mana Radius in order to allow long lasting disables/death.

Cons
- Poor early game.
- Needs Intelligence allies to make the most of his abilities.
- Needs disabling allies to allow effective use of Mana Radius.
- Needs allies full stop. He is a poor solo hero.
- Quite reliant on items to make the most of his abilities.
- Poor farmer.
- Poor Movement Speed and terrible attack.

But that's it, isn't it? He is such a strong team player that without allies he only really has some slight strength with Aether Discharge, and thats only much later in the game. Divided we fall stays true for Vespertine. He is also a bit of an items whore, needing high intelligence items to allow stronger Aether Discharges and longer channeled Mana Radii, in addition to some disables of his own.



Skill Synergy

Lets take a look at how well Vespertine's skills fit together:


Basic combo, allowing for stronger Aether Discharges on Linked units. The AOE shove from Discharge automatically adds distance penalty to the enemy heroes by forcibly slipping them so they're primed for your allies.


Again, useful for stronger Mana Radii, but on a greater scale as you can hit more units. The fear of being hit by the Mana Radius also causes enemies to split, allowing for nearby nukers to unleash stronger nukes as a result of the distance penalty of Negation Link.


If Vespertine uses Twilight Rage on himself, he can tank while channeling Mana Radius, which grants him a steady mana flow as he is channeling.


Simple, cast Twilight Rage on yourself then Negation Link on the nearby heroes, use Aether Discharge on the strongest or centremost hero of the group then channel Mana Radius while the stun is just wearing off the team. If it hits, the AOE push of Discharge will have placed enough distance between them for Negation Link to have had an effect.

Thats a look at his skills as they work for him. But he is a team player, isn't he? None of this solo nonsense.


Hero Synergy

Lets have a look now at his synergy with other heroes:


Heavy Nukers

Umm... DUH! You have abilities which grant them mana and a greater effect to their damage nukes. Abuse these lane combos.


AOE Disablers

This is obvious. Negation Link them then channel Mana Radius. Say goodbye to the enemy team when these heroes are helping you.


Single Target Disablers

Aether Discharge and your ally's high powered disable would work to immobilise a single target for a LONG time if you have high Intelligence. This is an example of when you and an ally like this should start ganking.


Tanks Who Have Nukes

These heroes tend to have a low mana pool with spells they would love to spam. That can be a reality. Just cast Twilight Rage on them, have them run in and tank a pile of damage, and voila! The wave also adds to their tankability.


Item Synergy

Finally, lets look at some ideal items for Vespertine:

Vespertine needs these. His Movement Speed is pitiful and he needs to be able to reach a team situation fast, obtainable through teleport.

The bonus intelligence and mana is invaluable to Vespertine, and the extra health allows him to tank with Twilight Rage if needed.

Vespertine really needs a disable in conjunction with his powerful skills, and this further adds to what he offers in team battles.

If you can have virtually endless mana, why not health? Use the extra mana earned from Twilight Rage on a Mekansm. Or heal weaker nukers you've used Rage on.

Awesome AOE slow, very handy in gaining more time to channel Mana Radius. Of course adds even MORE to the team.

Dagon? OMG DAGON IS TEH NEWBZ ITEMZ! Actually, Vespertine supports it well, gaining the mana to use it through Twilight Rage and having it deal more damage through Negation Link.

Useful for suspending pesky heroes while you channel a strong Mana Radius.

Allow for uninterrupted Mana Radius channels. Works well in aiding to tank for Twilight Rage, as well as complimenting Vespertine's high strength growth.

Who DOESN'T want Necronomicon??

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Final Notes

Nothing much else to say. I've worked pretty freaking hard on this hero, so i would appreciate well though out comments and feedback. If you feel so inclined, please give me some really in depth feedback using a proper judging template. For those of you unsure as to how to go about this, you should try |)arkzer0's awesome hero judging template. |)arkzer0's Hero Judging Template

Thanks and feedback will be VERY appreciated.

~Elementalism~


Changelog

- Created Vespertine.
- Decided to nerf Negation Link from 2/4/6/8% to 2/3/4/6%
- Changed stun on Aether Discharge from 100 to 150.
- Changed Aether Rage to Twilight Rage.
- Buffed Mana Radius DPS from 50/100/150 to 70/130/200
- Buffed Negation Link's penalty from 2/3/4/6% to 2/4/6/8%
- Added a new effect to Twilight Rage.
- Restored Twilight Rage. (Wasn't even for 24 hours )
- Changed Aether Discharge so it removes early game power for a slight increase in late game power.
- New addition to Twilight Rage. See spell description for details.
- Changed around the new addition to Twilight Rage a bit. (For balance reasons)
- Restored some of Aether Discharge's early game power.
- Added a FAQ! Check it out!
- Changed around Mana Radius a little. It now has scaling AOE, a duration cap, and higher initial mana cost.
- Nerfed Mana Radius a little.

This post has been edited by Elementalism: Jul 30 2008, 05:12 PM

[Talor Karos]

First Blood!

Unfortunately, I'm not gonna be using |)arkzer0's Hero Judging Template.

Name: Vespertine
comments: Reminds me greatly of a hero that I helped flesh out. LOL!

Title: Aether
comments: Hmm... Not much. It's like calling Luna the Nightsaber Rider

Role: Nuker/Primary Support
comments:

Model: Water Elemental
comments:

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Skill 1: Aether Discharge
This is an extremely powerful spell which is easily remedied even before late game. The amount of damage it can dish out is virtually infinite (i.e., if you can have +1000 Int of items) but the stun is what worries me. I compare it to PotM's Elune's Arrow, Alchemist's Unstable Concoction and Nessaj's Chaos Bolt which have the longest potential stuns in-game: Mirana's, you need skill to properly execute; Alchemist, you lose 5 seconds of attack time; and for Nessaj you have to be extremely lucky all the time to get max 4 second stuns.

I'd feed this character with monster INT items plus maybe throw in Skadi or Linken.. Nevermind Meka and BKB. They're not needed with the duration of stun I can inflict.

I recommend the modifier be tweaked. Maybe instead of 100 it should be 200. So for your proposed build, the 120 INT would only stun for 2.45 sec which ain't bad.

Skill 2: Negation Link
Great crowd control. I love anything that has to do with magic resistance (MR) manipulation. It's currently lacking in the game.

Skill 3: Aether Rage
I dislike having to use the same term all the time. I want a different name for this skill or at least change the first word. Incidentally, I have qualms with your hero story - Warcraft/WoW lore-wise, arcane magic comes from the Twisting Nether, so you have to be specific about what kind of magic Vespertine wields.

On to the skill... great support skill, great rules regarding Mana Shield, great synergy with his ultimate.

Ultimate: Mana Radius
Love it. Similar to OD's but it's based on mana. Numbers can be tweaked. I'm not gonna be commenting much on this.

Maybe you can have the AOE scale with the time of chanelling. Start at say 300 and then it increases per second of chanelling... to something that rewards good teamplay and excellent execution of skills to maximize the ultimate's potential... I'm thinking about 600+ AOE. But I'd also nerf the damage modifier a bit.

With my suggested nerf to your first skill, this is easily countered. Lotsa disables in-game, anyways.

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Overall: I'm leaning towards a T-up already!

[AmiNoGlicO]

Wonder where you got the ult's idea -.-

[Torchic Maniac]

I am a lurker in both here and the DP forums.
I just don't post in DP unless this forum goes down.
I believe I seen this hero before in DP (I don't know though).

Nothing much else to say. I've worked pretty freaking hard on this hero, so i would appreciate well though out comments and feedback. If you feel so inclined, please give me some really in depth feedback using |)arkzer0's awesome hero judging template. |)arkzer0's Hero Judging Template

Unfortunately, I am also not going that template. I no longer use any long hero judging template unless I am doing a hero in the Potential Waiting List (plus it's time consuming and I need my time )


Aether Discharge - Spells like these usually gets disturbing powerful at late game. This skill doesn't have any type of weakness and it only gets better over time. My only suggestion is that you increase the cooldown just a little bit, but the concept and execution of the skill is wonderful.

Negation Link - The concept is fine. It really makes your nukes and other people's nukes very powerful throughout the game. This skill seems to be a good counter to hood users. Overall, great skill to be in the game in general.

Aether Rage - This skill doesn't really have that much synergy... well, it does. You have to take a heavy price to do use it. The concept is good though and it is useful. It might not useful on this hero in particular but perhaps, someone else. Then again, this hero doesn't any more nukes. He is already nuke heavy

Mana Radius - Without any good synergy that makes this skill work better (other that the stun from the first skill), this skill is really good with only allies. With that being said, some good allied disables will make this skill golden. Definitely a powerful skill for IH/League games where team work prevails.

Verdict - Definitely a solid hero for a and a shot for the potentials.
He is really powerful hero for a good number of occasions and he is very powerful late game.
With team power and a lot of INT, I forsee him breaking games with his skills . Definitely a good carry.

I'll definitely look for this hero in the Potential Waiting List. But of course, you have to reach there first.

Good luck

[Belforg]

I usually use other way to judge, but...

1 )Hero Abilites (10.6/12)
1.a ) Ability 1:

Good Nuke, but the stun can be imba...
(2.5/3)

1.b ) Ability 2:

Yeah, it's an original concept, but it haves one problem. With a long distance, the enemy can run from you very easy.
(2.3/3)

1.c ) Ability 3:
Love the concept, but... I think this should be an Aura (but obviously with lower numbers).
(2.8/3)

1.d ) Ultimate:
Fits perfectly with the hero.
(3/3)

2 )Synergy (10/12) [I think that this is the Strong part of the hero, and it's a part of the skills, so when I judge, I usually vote looking this and the skill originality]
2.a ) Skill Synergy
Perfect.
(6/6)

2.b ) Item Synergy

Based on get mana.
(1/3)

2.c ) Hero Synergy
Third skill will be very helpfull, so that skill is The Synergy.
(3/3)

3 ) Hero Builds
Simple, needs all skills to work well.
(2/5)

4 ) Balance
As I said, the first skill can be imba lategame.
(4/6)
5 ) Originality, Counterability and Other
Original concept, but VERY easy to counter. Mana burn = dead.
(3.5/5)
Total: (30.1/40) (With my way of judging, the total would have been higher)
Vote: T-Up. Nice work, but I think you should take my suggestion on the third skill.

[Elementalism]

Great, some nice constructive comments:

Skill 1: Aether Discharge
This is an extremely powerful spell which is easily remedied even before late game. The amount of damage it can dish out is virtually infinite (i.e., if you can have +1000 Int of items) but the stun is what worries me. I compare it to PotM's Elune's Arrow, Alchemist's Unstable Concoction and Nessaj's Chaos Bolt which have the longest potential stuns in-game: Mirana's, you need skill to properly execute; Alchemist, you lose 5 seconds of attack time; and for Nessaj you have to be extremely lucky all the time to get max 4 second stuns.

I'd feed this character with monster INT items plus maybe throw in Skadi or Linken.. Nevermind Meka and BKB. They're not needed with the duration of stun I can inflict.

I recommend the modifier be tweaked. Maybe instead of 100 it should be 200. So for your proposed build, the 120 INT would only stun for 2.45 sec which ain't bad.

I have been considering the stun for a long time, and have nerfed it to damage/150 from damage/100. I know it is powerful with items, but Vespertine is a HORRIBLE farmer. He has nonexistant agility, meaning you have to be damn good at last hitting. And his only AOE damage spell carries an 80 second cooldown at level 16. So as imba as the stun can become, its a matter of reaching the items to make it imba, which requires EXTREME patience.

Skill 2: Negation Link
Great crowd control. I love anything that has to do with magic resistance (MR) manipulation. tongue.gif It's currently lacking in the game. tup.gif

Thanks! This is one of my favourite skills on Vespertine.

Skill 3: Aether Rage
I dislike having to use the same term all the time. I want a different name for this skill or at least change the first word. Incidentally, I have qualms with your hero story - Warcraft/WoW lore-wise, arcane magic comes from the Twisting Nether, so you have to be specific about what kind of magic Vespertine wields.

On to the skill... great support skill, great rules regarding Mana Shield, great synergy with his ultimate. tup.gif

Although i could give an example of where the same name has been used multiple times in one skill set (aka. Nether Blast, Nether Ward), i've decided to change the name to Twilight Rage, which is a dedication to Vespertine's name (vespertine means pertaining to or occuring in the evening/twilight). I, however, disagree on your qualms with the story. I do not play World of Warcraft, so i don't know the intricacies of it. When i make an original idea, i like to think of an original story that goes with it, not a story adhering to the rules of a universe not really related to DotA. Additionally, i find that the people who write stories based on the backstories of Warcraft come up with boring, generally unispired copies of character stories from the Warcraft series anyway.

However, if several more people so object, i can always change it. Glad you like the skill!

Ultimate: Mana Radius
Love it. Similar to OD's but it's based on mana. Numbers can be tweaked. I'm not gonna be commenting much on this.

Maybe you can have the AOE scale with the time of chanelling. Start at say 300 and then it increases per second of chanelling... to something that rewards good teamplay and excellent execution of skills to maximize the ultimate's potential... I'm thinking about 600+ AOE. But I'd also nerf the damage modifier a bit.

With my suggested nerf to your first skill, this is easily countered. Lotsa disables in-game, anyways. biggrin.gif

Its a nice suggestion, but it doesn't fit the synergy i'm going for. It's already a difficult spell to pull off, so having it start from a low AOE would give the enemy a bit too much time to dodge it. It also is designed to work with Aether Discharge in that the AOE shove ends up being smaller than the AOE of Mana Radius so there's more time to channel and less chance of their escape.

Wonder where you got the ult's idea -.-

Sorry, i don't follow?? If your implying plagiarism, i can assure you that i had been working on the general idea of Mana Radius for a while, and that i have never read of a skill that even remotely matches what Radius achieves.

Thanks for all your comments!

~Elementalism~

EDIT

Wow you guys post too fast for me to respond

K lets have a look:

Aether Discharge - Spells like these usually gets disturbing powerful at late game. This skill doesn't have any type of weakness and it only gets better over time. My only suggestion is that you increase the cooldown just a little bit, but the concept and execution of the skill is wonderful.

Negation Link - The concept is fine. It really makes your nukes and other people's nukes very powerful throughout the game. This skill seems to be a good counter to hood users. Overall, great skill to be in the game in general.

Aether Rage - This skill doesn't really have that much synergy... well, it does. You have to take a heavy price to do use it. The concept is good though and it is useful. It might not useful on this hero in particular but perhaps, someone else. Then again, this hero doesn't any more nukes. He is already nuke heavy cheesy.gif

Mana Radius - Without any good synergy that makes this skill work better (other that the stun from the first skill), this skill is really good with only allies. With that being said, some good allied disables will make this skill golden. Definitely a powerful skill for IH/League games where team work prevails.

Verdict - Definitely a solid hero for a tup.gif and a shot for the potentials.
He is really powerful hero for a good number of occasions and he is very powerful late game.
With team power and a lot of INT, I forsee him breaking games with his skills afraid.gif . Definitely a good carry.

I'll definitely look for this hero in the Potential Waiting List. But of course, you have to reach there first.

Skill 1: I have nerfed the stun and, as previously stated, it takes a MASSIVE effort to farm the items needed to make this skill really powerful, so i feel it has its own kind of sick sense of balance.

Skill 2: Thanks!

Skill 3: Yes there is a heavy price, but thats kinda the idea. Some heroes would shine with this ability, like the Tanks with Nukes i have included in my synergy section. Vespertine also has quite high strength for an intelligence hero.

Skill 4: I like that this requires good coordination to pull off effectively.

Verdict: I agree that he is powerful, but he needs a lot of effort, persistence, and teamwork to make the most of him. I'm glad you like him!

I usually use other way to judge, but...

1 )Hero Abilites (10.6/12)
1.a ) Ability 1:

Good Nuke, but the stun can be imba...
(2.5/3)

1.b ) Ability 2:

Yeah, it's an original concept, but it haves one problem. With a long distance, the enemy can run from you very easy.
(2.3/3)

1.c ) Ability 3:
Love the concept, but... I think this should be an Aura (but obviously with lower numbers).
(2.8/3)

1.d ) Ultimate:
Fits perfectly with the hero.
(3/3)

2 )Synergy (10/12) [I think that this is the Strong part of the hero, and it's a part of the skills, so when I judge, I usually vote looking this and the skill originality]
2.a ) Skill Synergy
Perfect.
(6/6)

2.b ) Item Synergy

Based on get mana.
(1/3)

2.c ) Hero Synergy
Third skill will be very helpfull, so that skill is The Synergy.
(3/3)

3 ) Hero Builds
Simple, needs all skills to work well.
(2/5)

4 ) Balance
As I said, the first skill can be imba lategame.
(4/6)
5 ) Originality, Counterability and Other
Original concept, but VERY easy to counter. Mana burn = dead.
(3.5/5)
Total: (30.1/40) (With my way of judging, the total would have been higher)
Vote: T-Up. tup.gif Nice work, but I think you should take my suggestion on the third skill.

Skill 1: Nerfed the stun.

Skill 2: You want the enemy to run. The farther they run from each other, the stronger the skill.

Skill 3: When i was coming up with this hero idea i was thinking passive. But i have decided upon it being an active skill simply because a passive for all allies is too easily abused IMO.

Skill 4: Thanks!

Synergy: Cool, thanks. Regarding item synergy, it does seem a bit one dimensional, but you have to admit it does work for him.

Balance: Fixed the problem you stated.

And mana burn is not the be all and end all. As stated in the Twilight Rage description, the enemy has NO indication of when and who has Twilight Rage on them. I could cast it on myself, run in, take mana burn, and only suffer the negligable damage it deals.

Thank you everyone for your fantastic feedback! I hope the changes i have made will be enough to make you want to play this hero!

~Elementalism~

This post has been edited by Elementalism: May 21 2008, 05:42 AM

[Thoth-]

Hm, I really don't have time to review this Hero in full, but since I liked him very, very much, I'll give him the T-up. But rest assured I looked into all of his skills.

[Elementalism]

So far so good. Thanks everyone for their comments so far. I will check out some of your hero ideas too when i get the chance. (Uni is hard work!)

Any more thoughts?? I can take/justify plenty of criticism so don't be afraid to give your two cents.

~Elementalism~

This post has been edited by Elementalism: May 29 2008, 08:06 PM

[Wana]

A Water Elemental hero would sound interesting. Don't worry about the model: Eidolons aren't anything particularly special.

Name/Story - Vespertine reminds me of Vespene Gas. His story is okay.

Skill 1 - An ok AoE skill. What I like about it is that it doesn't lose effectiveness as the game progresses. Can you clarify the stunning time better?

Skill 2 - Unique skill that has to do with magical resistance. Never seen one like this. This could lead to many wonderful synergies and results, bwahaha.

Skill 3 - Somewhat a filler skill for the hero but it works. He requires a lot of mana to operate properly and this skill could turn him into a hybrid caster/tanker.

Ultimate - You're right on how it requires a lot of allied assistance to pull it off. A very useful and powerful channel, and I like it very much. Black Hole + Mana Radius = GG.

Vespertine has good potential and can outwit most AoE heroes at their own game. Alongside AoE bretheren, he is just as deadly.

T-Up on this hero. He sounds like he'd be very fun to use.

[Lord_Talron]

there really isnt much i can say
the skills synergize quite well. skill 2 is quite clever
i love how twilight rage synergizes with his ultimate.
seems relatively balanced too

[Elementalism]

Thanks for all your feedback guys!

In response to Wana's question r.e. Aether Discharge, the stun duration (in seconds) is equal to the damage dealt (before resistance) divided by 150. For example:

Aether Discharge deals 350 damage. 350/150 = 2.3. Therefore, the target will be afflicted with a 2.3 second stun.

Hope this clarifies things. Thanks for all the comments and i'm glad you like the idea!

~Elementalism~

This post has been edited by Elementalism: May 29 2008, 08:06 PM

[Talor Karos]

Well, I've thought a lot more on what this hero can do re: fun factor, gameplay as well as flavor so...

T-up and free bump!

[Elementalism]

Any more comments at all?

This post has been edited by Elementalism: Jun 25 2008, 03:56 AM

[Osce_Posce]

I don't have time to fully look into him right now but I will T-UP because from what I saw it is a perfect support for intelligence. Good luck.

[heartlesskookie]

review review review

Story
- a good decent story

Aether Discharge
- int based damage + knockback + and stun...usually if you see suggestion with this kind of skills, it would be balance that has a problems...your doesnt have balance issue...perfect

Negation Link
- A good AOE setup

Twilight Rage
- inspiration was MP Rage from KH! Yey!! Nevertheless good skill!

Mana Radius
- This needs a good coordination to be setup up but the reward is beautiful

TUP!!!!

[xChiLL]

Hmm,thanks for reviewing mine.HEYY!You used my icon for skill 1 lolz.

Skill 1 -- Pro skill,but it gets rigged late game,since this is a late game hero.GJ.It has knockback,and stun.Good concept.5/5

Skill 2 -- I always wanted to see a skill like this,Ima big fan of MR Links.Can get very rigged.Btw,nice job. 5/5

Skill 3 -- Copied from KH2,MP Rage,Although i dont like KH2 spells like this,I like the concept.4/5

Skill 4 -- Gets very rigged once you get ownage INT items(For example, Scepter),and Avatar Inmunity.Better if you replace Shiva's with Linkens for this skill to work perfectly fine,and ignoring Physical and magical attacks.3/5

Overall/Verdict:17/20 T-UP//Passed.

[MortredEffect]

_______________________________________
VESPERTINE, THE AETHER

Aether Discharge
Very original, I like it. I very nice late game spell, and since he is INT, this fits well. The knockback is a nice touch. Also with that build I think this spell has one of the longest stun time in the game. (other then CK) (5/5)

Negation Link
Pretty unique, Kind of like a nerfed version of Decrepify, but still unique in its own way with the jump. My favourite part is that it forced them tog et closer together, but also they have to stay alittle farther apart. Great synergy with skill 1. (4/5)

Twilight Rage
It's good and all, but I got one thing. This spell benefits from health. Your a INT hero so you won't have that much to spare unless you get some STR items. But its hard to get STR items when your first spell counts on more INT. Its unique but I don't think it fits the hero. (2/5)

Mana Radius
I like this skill, the only down part: It relies on your team, or no disables from opponents. The damage is very low IMO for a ultimate. Back to the comment about CK's stun in skill one, if he lands that 4 second stun, that is only a total of about 600 damage at level 3. But the chances of you using this exactly when he actually lands a 4 second stand, is very little. Making you release it early, or miss the nuke. (6/10)

_______________________________________

Spell Synergy: Yes, i completely agree, he is a team hero, but can hold his own as solo with those synergies. Great work. (3/3)

Hero Synergy: He is a team player opening lots of holes for hero synergy. (3/3)

Item Synergy: Can't say anything bad about this, these items fit well. (3/3)

_______________________________________

Total: 26/34
My Vote: Great job!!

[Elementalism]

Nice responses. K let's see...

Skill 1 -- Pro skill,but it gets rigged late game,since this is a late game hero.GJ.It has knockback,and stun.Good concept.5/5

Aether Discharge
Very original, I like it. I very nice late game spell, and since he is INT, this fits well. The knockback is a nice touch. Also with that build I think this spell has one of the longest stun time in the game. (other then CK) (5/5)

Glad you like this! But you have no chance of getting the long stun until after years of farming.

Skill 2 -- I always wanted to see a skill like this,Ima big fan of MR Links.Can get very rigged.Btw,nice job. 5/5

Negation Link
Pretty unique, Kind of like a nerfed version of Decrepify, but still unique in its own way with the jump. My favourite part is that it forced them tog et closer together, but also they have to stay alittle farther apart. Great synergy with skill 1. (4/5)

Again, glad you like it! But the only similarity it shares with Decrepify is the magic resistance reduction. Otherwise it is a completely different skill.

Skill 3 -- Copied from KH2,MP Rage,Although i dont like KH2 spells like this,I like the concept.4/5

Twilight Rage
It's good and all, but I got one thing. This spell benefits from health. Your a INT hero so you won't have that much to spare unless you get some STR items. But its hard to get STR items when your first spell counts on more INT. Its unique but I don't think it fits the hero. (2/5)

I just need to point out two things regarding this. One is that Vespertine has massive strength and strength gain for an intelligence hero. Second is that, although he is a good target for the spell, it's primary use is to aid stronger allies with it. It is a very situational spell IMO, cause you never know what the enemy will do. It's a double-edged sword, as well as being a compliment to Mana Radius, both of which i like on this hero.

Skill 4 -- Gets very rigged once you get ownage INT items(For example, Scepter),and Avatar Inmunity.Better if you replace Shiva's with Linkens for this skill to work perfectly fine,and ignoring Physical and magical attacks.3/5

Mana Radius
I like this skill, the only down part: It relies on your team, or no disables from opponents. The damage is very low IMO for a ultimate. Back to the comment about CK's stun in skill one, if he lands that 4 second stun, that is only a total of about 600 damage at level 3. But the chances of you using this exactly when he actually lands a 4 second stand, is very little. Making you release it early, or miss the nuke. (6/10)

K lets look at these. First off, r.e. xChill's comment, it isn't that rigged with high intelligence items. Not really. To make use of ALL of that intelligence, you would have to have 4 Atroposes on your team casting Nightmare consecutively on one hero. More mana does not make this skill stronger, but more disables do.

Second, i'd like to point out that CK is not the ONLY hero with a high end stun. What about Enigma? Or Rooftrellen? Or Magnus? They all are better than CK cause their stuns are AOE. This spell is supposed to be difficult to hit with because of how strong it is. It has a large AOE, which means even a slow will do. And it has high damage, especially when you couple it with Negation Link. More damage could be possible, but at the moment i will keep it the same. This skill rewards teamwork, which is what DotA is all about.

Thanks for the great comments guys!

~Elementalism~

[Kwj94]

I have looked up to your hero before. I dont know what to say or how to explain. I understand it clearly. All original. Fun. Unique. Very good synergy indeed. A based on INT and mana hero. Many items work well on this hero . I will PM you when I found out a nice item/hero synergy that you missed out. I will give it a T-Up but sad i cant vote as i voted before. When I looked at it before, speechless i am I just have to put a null... Sorry. But ill take another acc and put up the T-Up

[P(oo)ky]

I really don't understand why people are getting worked up about this hero. Personally, I find him poorly balanced, lacking a unifying theme, and, last, but certainly not least, synergy! Here's my 2 cents...


AD: First of all, I can understand the concept of late-game nukes on INT heroes (I employ them quite often in my own hero suggestions), but the problem with this one is that you're trying to make it useful both late and early game - as Wolverine would say: "You can't have it both ways, bub!". This is the equivalent of Critical Strike (a melee hero's lategame ability) doing fixed plus percentage-based damage, making it useful both early, and a beast late game. Also, what's with the pushback? No synergy whatsoever since your hero is not based on displacement or forced relocation. It's just a gimmick thrown in for fluff and eyecandy (imagine Sven's Stormbolt pushing enemies out of it's way as it flies to it's target). This is a late-game, single-target nuke - please treat it as such!


NL: Actually my favorite ability in the whole skillset - basing a hero around this would be wonderful, and would add so much synergy! Imagine coupling this with Magnataur's "Reverse Polarity"! Great idea, great concept, and pretty good execution, although I'd tweak the nuerical variables a bit:

L1: 5% reduction, 2 targets. +1% penalty per 100 units.
L2: 10% reduction, 3 targets. +2% penalty per 100 units.
L3: 15% reduction, 4 targets. +3% penalty per 100 units.
L4: 20% reduction, 5 targets. +4% penalty per 100 units.

Why 5 targets? Well, this is an ability most people would skip in favor of +STATS (every hero has an ability people skill late or never) since it requires excellent teamplay to pull off. Also, if executed properly, you would bind all 5 heroes, forcing them to lose around 35-ish percent magic resistance. It's a powerful ability this way, but it's counterbalanced by the fact that it's pretty much useless unless you have a capable AoE nuke team at your side. Also, nerf the duration to 15 seconds, and you're good to go.


TR: I guess this would be okay on tanks who take lots of damage, but for a frail INT hero, this is not very useful. This would encourage players to go for +STR builds, which is somewhat pointless since your hero depends on +INT gear for his primary nuke and mana-intensive skillset. Reworking this into a passive aura that gives Vespertine spiked boosts of mana as heroes around him (himself included!) take damage and suffer HP loss might be a better idea (maybe even include creeps into the equation).


MR: Chakra on steroids meets Freezing Field. Also, how the hell does this synergize with his other abilities? You don't want to take damage while channeling (TR), you're not moving anywhere while channeling so you can't adapt to enemy position and pounce on them when they're far apart suffering magic resistance loss (NL), and you sure as hell can't nuke them (AD)! 'Nuff said.



Conclusion: Heavily leaning towards a TD (I'd TD him if it weren't for "Negation Link"). Lucky for you that I always give people a chance to tweak and improve their suggestions. Oh, and maybe think about changing his name - it reminds me of Terpentine (there's like 300 random name generators with the fantasy theme on the web, so you really have no excuse).

Anyway, that's all from me - cheers!


P.S. @ Torchic - You kind of dissapointed me with your lackluster review. I've come to expect honest (and often harsh, yet fair!) critique from you. Is it really possible you like this hero so much?

P.P.S. Reading through the skillset one more time, I've noticed that you list "Aether Discharge" and "Negation Link" as a good combo. Seriously, you want enemies to stay together for fear of taking extra magical damage so that they're actually *TOGETHER* and clumped up when a friendly Magnataur or Venomancer pops in and releases an ultimate! Forcing them apart is just silly. Silly, silly knockback...

EDIT: damn typos... ><

This post has been edited by P(oo)ky: Jun 8 2008, 06:46 AM